Curse

Effendi Westland · Aug 29, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

/signed

because I disagree with basically everything in above post two posts.

The Quote you use applies to armor linked to titles very well btw.

thezed · Aug 29, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

/signed

because I disagree with basically everything in above post two posts.

The Quote you use applies to armor linked to titles very well btw.

Your right, the GW:EN armor does qualify as a Grind. Don't know if it is an excessive one yet though, time will tell on that.

If it does prove to be excessive I would change my vote on those titles. But SS, LB, Lux, Kurz, Wisdom, and Treasure do not need to be changed.

Hawkeye · Aug 29, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

You want a title, a merit of reputation to be granted to all players to an account, when technically in game, they're not even supposed to know each other? It isn't exactly account stats. They're titles, which by definition are granted to people.

Besides, like he already said. Titles are supposed to be difficult to obtain. If it became so easily to gain a title, you could max survivor title on a tank with nothing equipped but +armor and +life skills and then go in game as elementalist and have this high survivor title. It wouldn't really mean anything at that point. However, as it is now, it is very impressive to have an elementalist survivor since they die so easily.

Impressiveness of a title is inversely proportional to the ease of obtaining it. So if you wish to make it easier to obtain titles, you will only make titles that much less impressive. Not to mention, you risk pissing off every player who worked hard to get a title on a character that couldn't have been easy getting for the profession they took.

shadeslayer21 · Aug 29, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

/not signed...plz you have to be kidding me to moan about grinding. find me an MMO that does NOT require grinding and i will be amazed. i agree with thezed all the way on this

Masterr · Aug 29, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadeslayer21

/not signed...plz you have to be kidding me to moan about grinding. find me an MMO that does NOT require grinding and i will be amazed. i agree with thezed all the way on this

how about Guildwars BEFORE titles ?
i agree with this. title grinding sucks, titles that have an effect on you (like lb, sunspear and the new eotn stuff shouldnt exist...)

Winterclaw · Aug 29, 2007, 06:12 PM // 18:12

/signed

While these titles are character based, IMO they also need to take into account how much you've done it already just to be kinder to the player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish

But titles like SS, LB, Norn, Dwarf, Asura and Vanguard are tiny by comparison. It took me only 3 weeks of hard farming to max out the SS and LB titles.

Sorry but most people don't want to do that once, let alone 3-4 times.

Aethon · Aug 29, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I like this idea.

One idea is to make it so that the number of times a title is maxed is account based, in the event that a character with a maxed title is deleted at some point.

In terms of how to hand out the bonus, perhaps players could get an extra X points towards the respective title whenever they normally receive points.

Hyper.nl · Aug 29, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

It's a choice you have to make between having one very developed character or more less developed ones. It feels unfair to the player who puts all effort in maxing one char that people with multiple chars can get the same but then on all their chars with same effort.

A better solution that gets my vote would be to move a few character based titles to account based ones.

lyra_song · Aug 29, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

/not signed

I dont see the point of making something thats supposed to take some time take shorter just because you have more characters.

So buying slots from Anet entitles you to some sort of advantage?

Um...no.

milan · Aug 29, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

/notsigned.

What's the big rush? It's GWEN going live at the weekend, not GW2.

appello · Aug 30, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Hi there,

I have 10 characters and don't want to grind for all of them to get decent levels in PVE Skills (riding in those dang worms over and over is really boring).

The problem lies IMO when skill effectiveness is tied to grind. Time (grind) shouldn't make you more effective in the game, it should be about skill. Check out the original concept behind Guild Wars sometime. Do a Google search for "Guild Wars removes grind" if you don't believe me. (lost cause I know, please don't flame me for the preceding comment

)

So here's and idea I thought up...
Scroll of Lesser Grinding.

Heres how it works:

You max a title out on one character (only titles that are PVE Skill tied will be eligible)

You may now talk to a crafter and make a Scroll of Lesser Grinding, costing X skill points and Xk gold. (similar to the new star of transference)

With this they can now unlock the -effective- ability of say rank 8 Sunspear on another character that uses that scroll.

The other character then gets the abilities / skills of Sunspear 8 but CANNOT display the title, (nor have it count towards KOABD) since they didn't earn it. Also they cannot go over the ability of rank 8, unless they max it normally (they would still have the same amount of title points they started at). They get to still be effective with the skill, but not be as uber leet as someone that grinded it normally.

It doesn't hurt the people who use the title's for prestige. And would help those of us who just want to play the game with a bunch of different professions and not have to grind like mad across a ton of characters. Plus there's still a ton of grinding to max a title.

So everyone is happy.

(j/k fat chance of that happening)

Winterclaw · Aug 30, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I dont see the point of making something thats supposed to take some time take shorter just because you have more characters.

So buying slots from Anet entitles you to some sort of advantage?

Something like this would make people more willing to buy slots. Look at the HoM, you need some serious grindage if you want that to look like anything more than an empty room.

draxynnic · Aug 30, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

If you're only going to push it up to Sunspear 8, I'd be inclined that it isn't worth the effort to implement - out of my 10 characters, I don't think any are less than General (R7), and most if not all that have actually finished the game are Castellans (R8). That's without any grind - just doing a few quests, capping elites, and progressing through the game in general while picking up the bounties when possible and taking Hard Mode when appropriate. (For the record, the Generals are non-Elonian natives, and thus didn't need to get to R7 to progress into the game.)

The GWEN stuff I'm holding my judgement on, but IMO completing the storyline for a particular race with the appropriate side activities (ie questing, exploring a few dungeons, partaking occasionally in the racial pasttime where approrpiate, not simply rushing to the finish) should get you to the point where you can get all the direct rewards (armour, etc), or at least within striking distance of getting them, with any titles beyond that being mostly for prestige. If not, there's a problem.

Lightbringer I could see something like this being worthwhile - while it's only relevant in certain areas, it's pretty important in those areas, and in my experience you can only get up to r4, maybe r5, without grinding.

freekedoutfish · Aug 30, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

/signed

While these titles are character based, IMO they also need to take into account how much you've done it already just to be kinder to the player.

Sorry but most people don't want to do that once, let alone 3-4 times.

So you know for a fact that more then 50% of the GWs population really dont like having to re-earn LB and SS or any other titles?

You cant use the views of just guru posters to make that statement because only a small % use guru.

Just stand in Remains of Sahlahja and count the loads of people in there farming LB and SS points and come back here and tell me that people dont like doing it!!

I do sympathise because after 3 weeks of maxing both those titles, I never want to set foot in Remains of Sahlahja again. But im realistic to realise that if I made a new char, I would need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterr

how about Guildwars BEFORE titles ?
i agree with this. title grinding sucks, titles that have an effect on you (like lb, sunspear and the new eotn stuff shouldnt exist...)

It really astounds me that people only ever look at titles from a one sided perspective. You hear all these people winge about titles, and how awfull they are.

Yet I love titles, and so do others!

I happen to think titles are the best thing Anet ever added. If Anet hadnt added titles I would have left the game a long time ago, due to having nothing to do.

What would there be left to do once you complete all missions, all quests, get your armor and your weapons if titles didnt exist?

Titles have extended the playability of this game by months and years!

Not everyone hates titles, and not everyone considers them a grind (or atleast not all of them). As for saying there was no grind before titles were added...

1) Exploration.
2) Certain bonuses to certain missions.
4) Elite skill capping.
5) Farming gold to buy armor and weapons (being the main one).

...you cant make a statement saying there was NO grind at all in GWs before titles were added. Ofcourse there was, just as there is in ALL games of this style.

Farming for gold, normal and rare materials being the main one!!

Its a hell of a grind to repeatadly enter an area to farm for resources to spend on armor, weapons and collectable items.

That existed long before any titles were added!

Yes some titles have added more grind, because certain titles have no relivance to the storyline or the actual game itself. They simply exist for someone to do!

But others like exploration, protector, guardian and skill hunter arent grind because those are titles you achieve by just playing through the game!

The same can be said for the new Norn, Drawf, Vangaurd and Asura titles because they will be increased by simply playing quests and dungeons, without any need for external effort put in, unless you want to go higher!

I also agree some titles should be account based, but only those with high maximum limits like wisdom and treasure hunter. Ones that are almost unrealistic to max out on single account!

But others such as LB, SB and Norn have such small max amounts and are so EASILY increased through quests, bounties and rewards that they dont need to be account based.

Plus people are commenting that LB and SS are now skill connected and that forces you to increase them. You dont need to achieve max rank in those titles, for the skils to be effective. The skills are maxed out long before you reach max rank.

The same can also be said for Norn, etc skills! The PvE exclusive Norn, etc skills in Gwen are over-powered anyway because they are PvE exclusive.

You dont need to have them maxed out to be effective. At just rank 3 or 4 they are still very powerfull skills! Yes you need a higher rank to get armor, but as ive said before, you just have to play the game to increase it.

Again...

....what were you expecting when you made a new character or few?

Didnt you realistically realise that you would obviously have to re-do all the same quests, missions and earn all the same points again?

Why are you playing an MMO game that involves you having to "role-play" if you dont like to actually develop new characters?

I just find it strange that people are complaining about having to do stuff again, when you would think it was a given and obvious!!! Do you honestly think that if you make a new character, everyone will be there and ready for you to use?

Its PvE, so your expected to work for stuff.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 30, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

/SIGNED

Yes, please, let it be closer to account based. I play several characters. But it's still me who does the achievements. Whichever character one of my friends talks to, they're still talking to me, one person. It's not really a big stretch. Some of us like to play multiple professions rather than sticking to one. This increases our ability to play the game as we gain familiarity with other classes. I dislike grinding and anything that reduces grind (or makes grinding less dull) is a plus in my opinion.

MirkoTeran · Aug 30, 2007, 09:22 AM // 09:22

/unsigned. Titles were not supposed to be easy/cheap. Work for it you scrubs.

MithranArkanere · Aug 30, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Please read what titles this would really affect.
It's NOT 'make all of them easier'.
It's give a small bonus to other characters the more titles you max.
That is, you'll have to max the title with one character before the bonus taking place for others.
So the most effective way to take this small bonus would be by maxing the titles with all characters, one by one.

Currently, almost NO ONE will max those titles with all characters.
So this would be actually good for you. More people would want to max them.
More Favor for you.

And this is not only for GW:EN titles, is for all character based 'point' titles:
ONLY titles that fulfill most the following requirements:
- Character Based
- Earned by score/promotion points, not by punctual achievements. That is, titles that can be earned by making the very same thing over and over and over (and over...) again.
- Earned by adventuring, fighting or hunting, not by staying in an outpost or just using items.
- Titles with real use and effects, like those linked to a skills, not only for show.

So, this would affect titles like: Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asura, Norn, Deldrimor, Ebon, Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, etc...

And it will NOT affect titles like Carthographer, Protector, Skill Hunter, Vanquisher, a possible title for making quests, ALL the account based, Sweet Tooth, Drunkard, etc...

freekedoutfish · Aug 30, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Please read what titles this would really affect.
It's NOT 'make all of them easier'.
It's give a small bonus to other characters the more titles you max.
That is, you'll have to max the title with one character before the bonus taking place for others.
So the most effective way to take this small bonus would be by maxing the titles with all characters, one by one.

Currently, almost NO ONE will max those titles with all characters.
So this would be actually good for you. More people would want to max them.
More Favor for you.

And this is not only for GW:EN titles, is for all character based 'point' titles:
ONLY titles that fulfill most the following requirements:
- Character Based
- Earned by score/promotion points, not by punctual achievements. That is, titles that can be earned by making the very same thing over and over and over (and over...) again.
- Earned by adventuring, fighting or hunting, not by staying in an outpost or just using items.
- Titles with real use and effects, like those linked to a skills, not only for show.

So, this would affect titles like: Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asura, Norn, Deldrimor, Ebon, Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, etc...

And it will NOT affect titles like Carthographer, Protector, Skill Hunter, Vanquisher, a possible title for making quests, ALL the account based, Sweet Tooth, Drunkard, etc...

Mith I completely love your idea for those titles which have HUGE maximum levels and would takes days and months to max.

But titles like LB and SS dont take a huge amount of time, and even the racial reputation titles for GWEN wont take a long amount of time to max.

The other issue with making Norn and Drawf etc titles account based is that it would make it unfair when unlocking armor. The idea is that an individual character has to earn the right to access the Norn armor for example.

If you made that title account based, then aslong as one char has rank 7 then all your characters can get that armor.

That would completely make the point of having title locked armor null-and-void! People could just walk into GWEN and get armor, while others are working for rank 7.

I love your idea for those titles with HUGE maximum levels and when the points arent easy to attain. But the points for titles in GWEN are very, very, very easy to earn from quests, dungeons, boxing, polymock, tournaments, and bounties.

Its not like faction points where the max level is 10,000,000 and you only get 1000 points for a quest.

GWEN the max level is far less and you by comparison, you get alot more points per reward for stuff. They will probably even give higher rewards for later quests that we havent seen yet.

Otherwise im signed for some titles you suggest, but not others. I also think its way too early to be including the GWEN titles into these threads when we dont even know 100% how the whole of GWEN is going to work.

There might be reward systems in GWEN that give far greater points and there will be ALOT of quests to earn points.

D E C E P T I V E · Aug 30, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

/signed

grind is really becoming a huge problem with this game. Rather than worry about the effects that reducing grind could have on the favor system though I say change the favor system. I dont like it the way it is anyway. It was better when it was an HA thing if you ask me.

MithranArkanere · Aug 30, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

My idea is NOT making them account based. It's to give a small bonus to a title once it reaches the penultimate track for each other character that has it maxed.

So... I agree it's easy to get maxed one or two of those titles. But 10 is not asy, it's time cosuming and boring. Pure grind. Because you have already been there for ages. It's not like you activate the title and can kill anything anywhere, you can only get those points in those places. So after too much time killing there, you may get bored.
And having many characters is a problem in that case, it's like punishing player for buying more slots, or trating those who have 1 character and 25 mules, and smacking those who play wih all characters.

That's the point. Just make it a bit easier the 8th, 9th, 10th... time you grind that title.